Yes, it was a real crime when the government jumped in during the thrities to try and correct the depression. The “free market” had worked out so well prior to FDR’s intervention, both in ’29 and during Wilson’s term earlier in the century. There has never been a true free market, and there likely won’t ever be one because of self interest from both unscrupulous marketeers and bleeding heart liberals. This viewpoint doen’t make me an anti-capitalist – I own a business. However, letting the robber barons of wall st. loose with no controls got us where we are today, and it was the same in ’29. People pulled HUGE sums of money out of their homes back then too, based on the investing advice of a handful of wall street giants. They promptly dumped their shares when the ordinary schmoes of America had driven thier holdings through the roof and made a fortune. The resulting cascade caused suffering for millions. Another fine example of the market taking care of itself. I have finally been alive long enough to understand that for repubs it’s all about private profits and public bailouts, and for demsit’s about pretending to be for the “people” while lining their own pockets with special interest money. However, when the “free market” finally takes it’s toll, repub fatcats are among the first to stand in line for that “bullshit socialist” public money.

Sorry Mr. Morgan K Freeburg, but I stand behind what I said earlier. I never claimed to be “nuanced”, and I’m not looking for a replacement Jesus. Again, you further proved my point that anyone “not you” is some sort of souless marxist engaged in Obama worship. For guys like you it’s all about those who are in or out of the set – you’re either “with us or against us”, right? No one can be independent in your little universe, so fine – count me out. I’d rather stand on the outside than believe the political lies of either party.

As far as my “towering intellect”, yes, you’re right. I am but a lowly contractor with only a bachelor’s degree. I’m sure that I could never compete with your stunning intellect and credentials. Funny thing though – I thought intellectual snobbery was the bastion of liberal dems…

One other thing – if and when BHO steps on his chorizzo I’ll be among the first to call him out on it. Given that he’s only been in office for thirty days, there just isn’t much to say (unless you wanted him to fail from the start…).

Yes, I can see you’re so much more nuanced than I am. No party can possibly approach the integrity of your towering intellect, and that’s why your reasonable sense of moderation just shines through, Mister Refree. That’s why I’ve said more negative stuff about Bush than you ever will about your Replacement Jesus, and it’s also why you say things like…

“You and yours have taken a page from the Limpbaugh playbook and stabbed at [my Replacement Jesus] at every conceiveable opportunity.”

“The only devisiveness that I can see is coming from [Republicans] – and you all sit here and wonder why you lost…”

“Way to miss the point, dittohead.”

“The problem with your argument is that Bushco further deregulated lending standards in a major way in 2002.”

Obama is the answer to people who desperately want to believe in a God, and don’t want to belive in Him outright. And, to people like you, who desperately want to be partisan shills without admitting that’s what they are. And, also, to people who desperately want to destroy the free market without admitting they want to do that. Seriously — how many times has the Government jumped in to overrule the market forces, over the last seventy years, and “fix” everything? And how many times has that worked out?

If you still have some hope for this Replacement Jesus to fix everything, or anything, you’re just not paying attention. Seriously. If you wanted to fix everything, the first step would be to have an open and honest…and let us not forget skeptical…debate about Keynesian economic theory, to find out if it really has a chance of working. On the other hand, if your goal was to pump a bunch of loot into bull-feces liberal social programs, your first step would be to hurry up and spend the money before anyone started paying attention. Well, now. Which one did your Replacement Jesus do? Have an honest debate about Keynesian economics, or hurry up and get the money spent?

The problem with your argument is that Bushco (republican congress + Bush) further deregulated lending standards in a major way in 2002 (ratio changes). I could stomach the whole “It’s Carter’s fault” argument if Bushco did nothing, but the fact is they added fuel to the fire. Sorry, but they have to bear a major portion of the blame. And as I said earlier; Many bankers, right down to the mortgage broker level knew several years ago that this thing was going to blow up, so what excuse did the fed under Bush have not to act? All of the bankers were playing musical chairs hoping they would get a seat before the inevitable happened. When it did, Paulson went hat in hand on behalf of his banker buddies to borrow from the public.

BTW – the only one’s calling Obama “Jesus” here are you folks. I have no strong allegiance to the man – most politicians are full of crap, and no doubt he is as well to some degree. I realize it’s a whole lot easier for you if you can paint everyone who is “not us” with one color (liberal, right?), but that just makes your thinking myopic. Sure, there are nutjobs who would lick his boots, but there are plenty of these on the right as well (witness the bawling McCain supporters after his loss). I choose not to have party allegiance because truthfully no party really represents my viewpoints fully. I’m issue driven and not consumed by party zealotry. Sorry, but “not republican” doesn’t make me a pachouli oil wearing, birkenstock clad halfwit on his way to a Phish concert. Spare me the liberal label and I’ll spare you all the racist homophobic redneck monikers as well.

Unfortunately it comes down to this. Yes, Bush did some stuff to keep this situation going, but he didn’t do anything to get the situation started, because it started with the community reinvestment act under Carter. And everything Bush did to make the problem worse, he did by acting like a damn DEMOCRAT.

Fact is, this whole problem is just a big sinkhole opening up under the market; the sinkhole came about from a huge-and-expanding gap between reality and overly-exuberant investor make-believe; and the make-believe came about from the government trying to make life “fair.” Had there been more respect paid to the free market, the kind of respect people pay it right before the democrats come along to call them “greedy” and clamor for more regulation — none of this would’ve happened. Unfortunately, your Replacement Jesus is showing a lot of signs of making the problem much worse, and not any better.

So the point of the article stands. Your B-b-but Bush!! excuses do nothing to take away from it.

Way to miss the point, dittohead. I WATCHED video footage last night of Paulson begging congress for the money, money that congress refused to let go of the first time around.

Yes, SOME repubs years ago asked for oversight of F&F, but who let it slip by and turn into the big pile of dogshit that it all became during the last eight years? There were warning signs early on in Spendalot’s term (I personally know bankers who were nervous in 2004).

Actually, the dear doctor in an earlier post said “Obama lied, the economy died” (liberal use of quotation marks intentional, Herr grammar nazi). The economy IS ruined, and unless you’ve been living in you mother’s basement for the last 2 years without TV or other communication devices (ok, maybe you are…) you would know this. Bush did far more than get the “snowball” started and you know it. Sweet Jesus, get a clue or pay someone to find one for you.

Would that be the revisionist history where you imply that Bush was writing legislation during the final two years of his Presidency? Who was it again that pushed for Freddie and Fannie to write loans to low income, high risk borrowers? I believe the video of Republicans begging for oversight of F&F is easily findable on youtube.

No one said Obama has ruined the economy (although I do like your liberal use of quotation marks), he is the one saying the economy is ruined. He has merely bankrupted our future. Bush may have been pushing the economic failure snowball down the hill, but Obama has drop kicked the sonofabitch halfway to Tahiti.

Still is nice to have you around though Chuck, seeing as how you are the reformed conservative, moderate, independent, right?

Paulson, under Bush, nationalized the two largest banks in history, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Number three was IndyMac. Nobody twisted Bush’s arm – Paulson BEGGED congress and the American people for the bailout. The banks didn’t have to make sketchy loans – they got greedy and figured the write offs would be low in relation to the volume they generated. They repackaged shitty loans and combined them with other “investment products” and sold them globally. This happened in plain view under Bush’s nose via Paulson and Bernanke.

You are right in calling out Obama for doing exactly the same thing – only he wanted more oversight and a cap on executive pay if their respective companies received PUBLIC money. In typical fashion, repubs wanted no oversight or caps on the PUBLIClY DONATED money (donated, because let’s face it, we’re never going to see it again…).

Again, you continue to call out Obama for acts that Bush committed with full support of the republican faithful. Once again, you are a HUGE hypocrite – you should be bashing Bush for starting this f’ing mess, but instead you heap your venom and your laughable “Obama ruined the economy” crap upon us (he ruined the economy in 30 days? Yeah, right!).

I remember a post after the election where you said that you hoped he would succeed. Nothing could be farther form the truth. You and yours have taken a page from the Limpbaugh playbook and stabbed at him at every conceiveable opportunity. The only devisiveness that I can see is coming from your party – and you all sit here and wonder why you lost…